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Question:

While taxing through Dulles last night I saw an Air France and a Sabena 4 engine plane. It looked fairly narrow in the body and not real huge ( as opposed to say a 777). I tried the AF website to check equipment, but of course the page was not working.

Response:

Most likely an A340 (Made by Airbus) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Newsgroups: rec.travel.air > While taxing through Dulles last night I saw an Air France and a Sabena 4 > engine plane. It looked fairly narrow in the body and not real huge ( as > opposed to say a 777). I tried the AF website to check equipment, but of > course the page was not working.

Response:

> While taxing through Dulles last night I saw an Air France and a Sabena 4 > engine plane. It looked fairly narrow in the body and not real huge ( as > opposed to say a 777). I tried the AF website to check equipment, but of > course the page was not working.

A-340?

Response:

You are surely right on that, I just looked at the airbus site and it looks like what I saw. The confusing thing was that I was expecting a bigger plane for the airbus than what looked like, and is, a 4 engined 330.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Most likely an A340 (Made by Airbus) > Newsgroups: rec.travel.air > While taxing through Dulles last night I saw an Air France and a Sabena 4 > engine plane. It looked fairly narrow in the body and not real huge ( as > opposed to say a 777). I tried the AF website to check equipment, but of > course the page was not working.

Response:

Question:

That’s a pretty broad question. Most of it will depend on your driving record (if you have one yet!) but your geographical area and for some companies, your grades play a part. Your best bet is to pick up a yellow pages and spend an hour or so calling and getting quotes from all the companies you can find. Good luck. scott wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anybody know how much the insurance cost for a year for a 1994 318i for a 16 >year old would be? >thanks

Response:

Anybody know how much the insurance cost for a year for a 1994 318i for a 16 year old would be? thanks

Response:

Where do you live? USA,Switzerland,Nigeria,China?

Response:

I used to have a 95 318 when i was 16… i paid 2300… full coverage… fred – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Anybody know how much the insurance cost for a year for a 1994 318i for a 16 >year old would be? >thanks

Response:

Additional info: live in Washington State, no driving record and have very good grades.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Where do you live? >USA,Switzerland,Nigeria,China?

Response:

Let me get this straight, you own a 95 M3 worth between 25,000-30,000 depending on condition and have no collision on it?! You must be quite wealthy, if you total or have your car stolen a 25-30 grand hurt will hurt most people.  Then again, if you were that wealthy, you would pay for collision without even thinking about it. I have a 95 M3 also, and pay 2,500 to insure it and my Camry. I’m 28 and could survive  25,000-30,000, but I wouldn’t be happy.   I’m not happy about paying for insurance….but I’m alot more happy then I would be if my car disappeared with no reimbursement in site. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m sorry to hear you live in a state with "No Fault" insurance (read: >"No Responsibility").  In no-fault states, you need to drive an enormous >"urban assult" vehicle and not bother to insure it.  I’d recommend a >snow-plow attachment, as that will destroy and kill whomever you hit. >Then you need only liability insurance.   >That being said, I go by the motto that if you can’t afford to lose the >car, you can’t afford the car.  I’m a 30-year-old with a 1995 M3.  I’m >insured with AIG and have no tickets since the 65 MPH California maximum >speed increase (althought I’m trying very hard :-) –perhaps the revenue >collectors aren’t bothering to pick up speeders on the major highways, >or perhaps they aren’t trolling at a fast enought speed to catch up to >me.  The nice thing about liabiliy-only insurance is that you can easily >price-compare diferent policies–you’re never going to have to deal with >your company anway, so you might as well get the crappiest company with >the worst agents and worst customer support. >Anyway, I pay $400 per year for AIG $100k / $250k liability only.  AIG >has a website and has been just fine customer-support wise. >Hope this helps, >Peter

Response:

I’m sorry to hear you live in a state with "No Fault" insurance (read: "No Responsibility").  In no-fault states, you need to drive an enormous "urban assult" vehicle and not bother to insure it.  I’d recommend a snow-plow attachment, as that will destroy and kill whomever you hit. Then you need only liability insurance.   That being said, I go by the motto that if you can’t afford to lose the car, you can’t afford the car.  I’m a 30-year-old with a 1995 M3.  I’m insured with AIG and have no tickets since the 65 MPH California maximum speed increase (althought I’m trying very hard :-) –perhaps the revenue collectors aren’t bothering to pick up speeders on the major highways, or perhaps they aren’t trolling at a fast enought speed to catch up to me.  The nice thing about liabiliy-only insurance is that you can easily price-compare diferent policies–you’re never going to have to deal with your company anway, so you might as well get the crappiest company with the worst agents and worst customer support. Anyway, I pay $400 per year for AIG $100k / $250k liability only.  AIG has a website and has been just fine customer-support wise. Hope this helps, Peter

Response:

Question:

Just a few of the innumerable trolling aliases and sock puppets this idiot uses to defeat the many kill filters people have set up to avoid his constant, incessant trolling and harassment of newsgroup posters: Contact information: Michael D. Voight 111 Bean Creek Rd, No. 118 Scotts Valley,  CA  95066-4148 (831) 438-2485 Works at Cisco Systems in their Scotts Valley Technical Assistance Cisco headquarters: Cisco Systems, Inc. 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, California 95134-1706, USA Phone: (408) 526-4000 Fax: (408) 526-4100 (800)553-NETS = (800)553-6387 John Morgridge, Chairman Phone: (408) 526-8229 Fax: (408) 526-4100 John Chambers, President, CEO Phone: (408) 526-8222 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Larry Carter, CFO, Sr. VP-Fin. and Admin., Sec., Director Phone: (408) 526-8211 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Richard Justice, Sr. VP, Worldwide Field Operations Phone: (408) 527-7371 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Brad Boston,Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer Phone: (408) 526-7008 Fax: (408) 526-8220 Susan Lori Bostrom Senior Vice President, Internet Business Solutions Group Phone: (408) 527-5648 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Howard S. Charney Senior Vice President, Office of the President Phone: (408) 526-8300 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Kate DCamp Senior Vice President, Human Resources Phone: (408) 527-9530 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Gail Morales Manager, Human Resources, Employment Phone: (408) 527-6654 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Peggy Lynch Employee Benefits Phone: (408) 526-8859 Fax: (408) 527-6080 Mario Mazzola Senior Vice President and Chief Development Officer Phone: (408) 526-5535 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Betsy Rafael Vice President and Corporate Controller Phone: (408) 525-0164 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Claudia Ceniceros Manager, Public Relations Phone: (408) 525-4700 Fax: (408) 526-4100

Response:

> Just a few of the innumerable trolling aliases and sock puppets this > idiot uses to defeat the many kill filters people have set

   The only way to EFFECTIVELY filter out his junk, is to use CyberSitter, if none of your other programs clash with it. I had to quit using CyberSitter becuase it was clashing with my spam filter. CyberSitter is the only program on the market that I know of, that can filter out his junk. There is no other program out there that can filter Usenet so well. If you want to filter Voight, Mezei, and other trolls, CyberSitter is the ONLY program that can do it. There are other programs, but they are meant for big corporate networks, and only run on the various server editions of Windows. Cybersitter is the only program that will run on consumer versions of Windows that can filter out trolls like Voight and Mezei.       Becuase I can no longer use Cybersitter, I can no longer filter out Voight and Mezei, as well as a few Australian dudes that like to argue how far US laws can go regarding dual nationals who do not live in the USA.

Response:

Can you filter out this?                             /

Question:

> Interesting that NZ is replacing some 767-200s with A320s. (note that NZ has > the right to change 320 to 321 or 319 prior to delivery).

maybe NZ learnt (the hard way) that it’s frequency and filled planes rather than lack of frequency and 1/2 empty ones that keeps you solvent.

Response:

>> Interesting that NZ is replacing some 767-200s with A320s. (note that NZ has > the right to change 320 to 321 or 319 prior to delivery). > maybe NZ learnt (the hard way) that it’s frequency and filled planes > rather than lack of frequency and 1/2 empty ones that keeps you solvent.

Yep and they also mentioned this could give them a bunch more third-party engineering work at their maintenance bases. Scotty — Academic Services, CCS                          (519) 824-4120 x2556 University of Guelph                     "If it’s not Scottish it’s CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"

Response:

Air New Zealand is acquiring 15 A320s, with an additional 20 options. Mixture of lease/purchase for now. http://www.airbus.com Scotty — Academic Services, CCS                          (519) 824-4120 x2556 University of Guelph                     "If it’s not Scottish it’s CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"

Response:

> Air New Zealand is acquiring 15 A320s, with an additional 20 options. > Mixture of lease/purchase for now.

Most interesting. This, at a time when Qantas is about to buy 25% of Air NZ.

Response:

A bit more info: ## The company has agreed to acquire 15 of Airbus Industrie’s A320 aircraft through a combination of purchasing and leasing arrangements and has an option to buy another 20 of the aircraft over the next 10 years.  The new aircraft, the first five of which arrive in October 2003 ,  will replace four Boeing 767-200 aircraft that are currently being retired and nine Boeing 737-300 aircraft that will be progressively retired from the fleet between September 2003 and December 2006 . ## Interesting that NZ is replacing some 767-200s with A320s. (note that NZ has the right to change 320 to 321 or 319 prior to delivery).

Response:

Question:

The temperature gauge in my ‘95 Sport hardly moves up the scale anymore.  It used to run about a quarter of the scale when new.  I was if other have seen.  I have been consider replacing the thermostat.  I have no problem with getting heat in the cabin. Craig Farrell

Response:

I have a 91 that had the same problem and the temperature sensor went bad, however that was at close to 100K.  It never had worked  very well before that however. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The temperature gauge in my ‘95 Sport hardly moves up the scale anymore. It >used to run about a quarter of the scale when new.  I was if other have >seen.  I have been consider replacing the thermostat.  I have no problem >with getting heat in the cabin. >Craig Farrell

Response:

Craig: Modern thermostats all seem to fail open these days, and seem to be less reliable.  I’m betting it is the thermostat (had two replaced during the 36 month warrantee on my ‘94).  You will still get heat with this sort of failure, but a properly working Explorer gives *serious* heat, once warmed up.  I doubt you’ve experienced much really cold weather yet this season :-) Chris Stoddard Bloomfield Hills, Michigan

Response:

I just bought a 91 explorer and my tempo gauge worked fine until i put prolong in it, now it barly moves.  But it has 112000 miles on it so the sensor might have gone bad about the same time I used the prolong

Response:

Yes good idea about the thermostat stuck open. And don’t forget to bleed. If you fogets then your needle will jump up and down because of air bubbles giving it false readings.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi please help ! > A few days ago my temp gauge went a bit strange I am am wondering whether > its anything to get worried about ! > I have a 325 E36 (93) > It has always when warm, stayed in the center position and warmed up to that > position after about 10 to 15 minutes of driving. > Now it takes forever ( about 30 kms) to get there ! > It hovers somewhere just below the first mark above the > seems a little erratic and changes its display quite a bit, but never goes > above the center line. > We had a big fire around where I live which left a lot of ash in the air, > could this’ve screwed it up ?? > Should I get it fixed or is it still working properly ? > Cheers > Hylton

Response:

I’ll bet if a lot of people stared at their temp gauge while driving they would see it jumping around a bit.. we also would have a lot of crashes<s> Those temp gauges are know to get a little jumping in their old age.. kind of like people .. longer to heat up and then jumpy when they do

Response:

Hi! I don’t know about that howering, but you might try to change your thermostat. If it’s stuck on open position the car will take forever to warm up properly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi please help ! > A few days ago my temp gauge went a bit strange I am am wondering whether > its anything to get worried about ! > I have a 325 E36 (93) > It has always when warm, stayed in the center position and warmed up to that > position after about 10 to 15 minutes of driving. > Now it takes forever ( about 30 kms) to get there ! > seems a little erratic and changes its display quite a bit, but never goes > above the center line. > We had a big fire around where I live which left a lot of ash in the air, > could this’ve screwed it up ?? > Should I get it fixed or is it still working properly ? > Cheers > Hylton

Response:

Hi please help ! A few days ago my temp gauge went a bit strange I am am wondering whether its anything to get worried about ! I have a 325 E36 (93) It has always when warm, stayed in the center position and warmed up to that position after about 10 to 15 minutes of driving. Now it takes forever ( about 30 kms) to get there ! seems a little erratic and changes its display quite a bit, but never goes above the center line. We had a big fire around where I live which left a lot of ash in the air, could this’ve screwed it up ?? Should I get it fixed or is it still working properly ? Cheers Hylton

Response:

Yes good idea about the thermostat stuck open. And don’t forget to bleed. If you fogets then your needle will jump up and down because of air bubbles giving it false readings.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi please help ! > A few days ago my temp gauge went a bit strange I am am wondering whether > its anything to get worried about ! > I have a 325 E36 (93) > It has always when warm, stayed in the center position and warmed up to that > position after about 10 to 15 minutes of driving. > Now it takes forever ( about 30 kms) to get there ! > It hovers somewhere just below the first mark above the > seems a little erratic and changes its display quite a bit, but never goes > above the center line. > We had a big fire around where I live which left a lot of ash in the air, > could this’ve screwed it up ?? > Should I get it fixed or is it still working properly ? > Cheers > Hylton

Response:

I’ll bet if a lot of people stared at their temp gauge while driving they would see it jumping around a bit.. we also would have a lot of crashes<s> Those temp gauges are know to get a little jumping in their old age.. kind of like people .. longer to heat up and then jumpy when they do

Response:

Hi! I don’t know about that howering, but you might try to change your thermostat. If it’s stuck on open position the car will take forever to warm up properly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi please help ! > A few days ago my temp gauge went a bit strange I am am wondering whether > its anything to get worried about ! > I have a 325 E36 (93) > It has always when warm, stayed in the center position and warmed up to that > position after about 10 to 15 minutes of driving. > Now it takes forever ( about 30 kms) to get there ! > seems a little erratic and changes its display quite a bit, but never goes > above the center line. > We had a big fire around where I live which left a lot of ash in the air, > could this’ve screwed it up ?? > Should I get it fixed or is it still working properly ? > Cheers > Hylton

Response:

Hi please help ! A few days ago my temp gauge went a bit strange I am am wondering whether its anything to get worried about ! I have a 325 E36 (93) It has always when warm, stayed in the center position and warmed up to that position after about 10 to 15 minutes of driving. Now it takes forever ( about 30 kms) to get there ! seems a little erratic and changes its display quite a bit, but never goes above the center line. We had a big fire around where I live which left a lot of ash in the air, could this’ve screwed it up ?? Should I get it fixed or is it still working properly ? Cheers Hylton

Response:

Question:

I’ve said stuff the dieting too — for now. I’ll get back to it. (Are wrappers calorie-free?) Bethy — you’re less than half a day a way from being one week down! WTG <G> Jean Three weeks, five days, 16 hours 534 times I chose more wisely, saving

Question:

> I am looking for comments ( good or bad ) on the Chrysler all wheel drive > minivans with the 3.8 L engine. It doesn’t seem that very many of these are > produced. In light of the high fuel prices; would one of these minivans be > an acceptable alternative to a full sized vehicle to be used for pulling > small trailers under 2,000 #.

Frank, I can’t comment on the reliability of the system (though I hear its no less reliable than the same van with FWD only). HOWEVER, I can say that it is NOT what I would pick for towing. For one thing, the rear differential is coupled to the tranny by an overrunning clutch, not by a center differential. In other words, the rear wheels are just along for the ride UNTIL the front wheels lose traction, so you gain nothing when towing. Also, just looking at diagrams of the system, it doesn’t look like the rear portion is ever meant to carry much power (consistent with the type of AWD it is- only engaging when the fronts slip). In short, it shouln’t be any better ( or worse, really) at towing than a normal FWD minivan. But I  wouldn’t EVER tow regularly with a front-drive of any sort. Hauling a lightweight boat out to the lake occasionally is one thing and probably (just barely) ok, but trailering a camper all around the country is another thing entirely. — Stephen G. Lacker sglacker at texas dot net "Turn off your blinding fog lights, hang up, and DRIVE!"

Response:

: Frank… : : The AWD vehicles come with a super rear independent suspension, although : I wonder about overloading the rear and how the camber is effected. Then : you also get disc brakes on the rear axle with the AWD. No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a beam axle ?!! BTW Is engine transverse ?

 No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

The AWD rear suspension consists of a tubular axle that attaches to a stamped steel housing that houses the wheel bearing and connects to the leaf springs.  The mounting point is offset so that the driveshafts from the rear differential can pass over or through the housing and to the wheels.  The differential is unsprung, it is firmly mounted to the chassis.  The design is such that I believe that the movement of one wheel may twist the axle slightly.   It might be a slight exaggeration, but I could see how someone might characterize the design as almost semi-independent.  I had a 78 rabbit that had a slightly more refined (and FWD) design with semi trailing arm housings that clearly imparted torque to a beam axle. In any event, the axle has an effect.  If I jack the rear of the car up by the middle of the rear axle, the camber of the rear wheels changes. The car also has load leveling shocks and rear disc brakes.  I think it handles quite well.

Response:

 Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the  rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a  beam axle ?!! Whether the rear axle is solid or independent at each wheel has nothing to  do with power going to it.

BTW Is engine transverse ?

 Yes, as it is in awd Golfs, awd Eclipses and other Mitsu cars of the recent past, awd Volvo S70/V70s, the old Mazda 323 GTX, Ford Tempo, Pontiac 6000, etc. I suggest you read up a little more.

I have read up and thats why my sarcastic comment on the way U.S. auto makers botch up a job . That method is the worst way to make traction ! Have you ever seen the better auto makers do this ?!  A solid "beam" axle is the worst way to do this.  If you are going to pay the price of having one wheel interfere with the other , why not just put an old fashioned pumpkin in ! Honda 6 speed Civic AWD did it this way . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> : > : > : > : > :  No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the > : fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

: Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the : rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a : beam axle ?!! Whether the rear axle is solid or independent at each wheel has nothing to do with power going to it. : : BTW Is engine transverse ? Yes, as it is in awd Golfs, awd Eclipses and other Mitsu cars of the recent past, awd Volvo S70/V70s, the old Mazda 323 GTX, Ford Tempo, Pontiac 6000, etc. I suggest you read up a little more. : : : : :  No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the : fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

Lloyd is correct, the rear axel has the same tube between the sides as the non rear wheel drive.  The rear axels are small shaftes connected to a center differential that is mounted solid on the body. Eugene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the > rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a > beam axle ?!! > BTW Is engine transverse ? >  No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the > fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

Frank… The AWD vehicles come with a super rear independent suspension, although I wonder about overloading the rear and how the camber is effected. Then you also get disc brakes on the rear axle with the AWD. You should definitely find an owner who has been towing with a 3.8/AWD. I don’t think the 3.8 engine is the problem, it’s the rest of the drive train. I tow with a Durango 5.9 V8.  I get 15-18 on the highway under normal driving, and 10-12 towing.  I am sure the 3.8/AWD will also suffer a fuel economy hit, but an owner who tows could help you with this info as well. IMHO, even a 2000lb trailer is a serious towing challenge. The 3.8/AWD is rated to 3500lb or 8500lb vehicle/trailer total, but you should really think through the issue of fuel savings -vs- getting a vehicle that will hold up. I bought a minivan for the wife, but I drive the heavy duty Durango with a happy balance of brawn and room for the family. The minivan has more flexibility on the inside, but the Durango with the third seat also offers plenty of seating and cargo options. I take a hit at the pump, but I have no worries about towing with the Durango. Plus the Durango will take you pretty far off-road if you are so inclined. If you towing needs will stay on the low end of the range, you could get by with the 4.7 V8 which get slightly better fuel economy over the 5.9. Happy shopping and feel free to hit me with any question on the Durango. I love that truck! RJ … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am looking for comments ( good or bad ) on the Chrysler all wheel drive > minivans with the 3.8 L engine. It doesn’t seem that very many of these are > produced. In light of the high fuel prices; would one of these minivans be > an acceptable alternative to a full sized vehicle to be used for pulling > small trailers under 2,000 #. Are the rear drive and brakes dependable? From > looking at the published numbers it seems that the 3.8L engine would have > adequate power for this application. THANKS in advance for your comments. > — > Frank Bock

Response:

Wonderful traction and stability under all conditions. I can also compare it to the FWD model.  When the van was two days old the main engine computer failed.  I was given a Voyager by the dealer with the 3.3 engine, it was a FWD model.  There is really a difference.  For example, making a spirited turn from a stop sign (spirited, not reckless) could generate some wheel slippage and the "awareness" feeling that you are pulling this large rear end in back of you.   With the FWD you are much more aware of the bulk of the van during lane changes and in cross winds.  I’m not saying it handles poorly or it is unstable.  Just that you know that you are driving a large long front wheel drive car.  It has limitations.  The other competing minivans don’t offer AWD as far I know.  But even comparing the FWD, I would go with the Chrysler product. I find the AWD superior in every way.  There is a mileage cost of about 2 mph.  A small price to pay.  The AWD package includes load leveling shocks at the rear and rear discs.The AWD is a pleasure in severe conditions, white knuckles on snow covered roads are a thing of the past.  I can drive with confidence.  I watch my speed because the wonderful handling can cause you to go too fast.  The laws of physics still hold.  On a ski trip to Vermont I had to stop an a narrow two lane road on a hill while a plow turned around.  I needed to start up on a steep unplowed hill with almost a foot of snow and proceed up an unplowed driveway.  I did.  This was a real test of the AWD.  I was shocked  to find it wasn’t a problem. I find this to be a superlative vehicle.  I really enjoy driving it. I would order any DC van with the towing package so that it comes equipped with the heavy duty radiator and extra transmission cooling capacity.  I would also change the transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. . As far as the thee transmission is concerned, I know there aren’t many who have nice things to say about these.  It’s the four speed plus overdrive that is computer controlled.  I have never owned a car with an automatic before and I didn’t want to.  But you can’t get manuals on these vans.  I must say that I have found that this transmission works really well.  It shifts smoothly, and down shifts when it should.  Very smooth.  On the highway on cruise it will seem like almost magic.  Up and down the hills with the computer selecting just the right combinations.  Real nice.  And if you step on it, the transmission will unlock andor kick down, depending on how hard you hit the pedal.  Reliability is still an issue, in my opinion.  I changed the tranny fluid every 30,000 miles and I didn’t tow, and I treated the tranny gently. The torque converter lock-up clutch failed suddenly leaving my wife and family stranded this past Easter weekend.  The van had 75,000 miles on it. The tranny was replaced with a rebuild under the extended warranty. I have found that the brakes work quite well and the antilock seems very effective.  There is a difference on snow.  On snow, when I’m focused (as I try to be) I find that at moderate speeds the stopping distance seems quite long.  This isn’t scientific because I have never driven without the antilock.  It could be the tires, but I expect it is not. (The big 16 inch Michelin touring tires that were original equipment seem to work well in most conditions.  Consumers’ Reports just rated them number 1.  I got 50,000 thousand miles out of them and they were still legal, but I wouldn’t use them in the winter.). It seems that if I brake until the car is on the verge of antilock, it is stopping faster than it is when antilock is invoked.  From what I have read about antilock brakes in this newsgroup and elsewhere my experience seems  to fit.  I find the antilock is very helpful in the rain and on bumpy surfaces.  Also in snow type conditions at higher speeds where control can be more important than traction.  The antilock seems less effective at speeds of 30 mph or so in a line of traffic. This year I purchased the new Michelin Alpin snow tires.  These work real well and I would strongly urge anyone to get such snow tires if snow is a problem where you live.  All season tires are a compromise and snow tires help you stop better. While my ‘97 isn’t underpowered, it could use a little more juice.  They changed the intake manifold on the ‘98 and ‘99 (and perhaps tweaked a few mechanicals, I’m not sure), so the 3.8 engine now gets 180 horses (mine is 166).  I guess they wanted to compete with the GM minis.  It has an old fashioned overhead valve engine.  Up till now all my cars have been overhead cams, but this engine works well and has a good reputation. The 2001 van will eventually be available with an even bigger motor. I haven’t mentioned interior accommodations and comfort.  It’s all there I find that long trips go quickly.  The ride is quiet and comfortable. Watch your speed because you will find that cruising in the high 80’s is no effort and very smooth.  Setting the speed control helps.  It works nicely to slow you on the downhill too.  My passengers appreciate the walk through space so folks can switch seats or search for snacks or odds and ends in the back.  Children and adults love the midcabin   buckets and the view outside the big plate glass windows.  The rear heat and air are powerful.  With a little tweaking, you can make everyone comfortable, and I heard this was improved for 98 with a rear thermostat.  The Mid cabin seats are almost as comfortable as the front seats and are more comfortable than the front seats of most cars.  The arm rests are real nice.  The rear seats are much better than the rear seats of most cars in terms of the space that they provide. And there won’t be anyone who will want for a cupholder or a place to put their stuff.  Seven on a ski trip is no problem.  I have the rear hitch and with it I can carry 4 bikes on a rear hitch carrier and three on the roof (not with the factory roof rack, but with a Yakima attachment called the double cross). I went for the LXI with the leather.  You will need to clean it and protect it with conditioners.  I have found it makes a difference.  It can be scratched (like all leather) but it cleans up nicely. If you opt for the super high end Limited, you even get a center armrest in the rear seats and some other nice stuff like steering wheel radio controls.   I found it is nice for the front seat passenger to have a power seat, (LXI) that seems to be the only thing of significance in terms of items to explain the LXI. I think the 2001 model will have some real nice improvements. I hope I didn’t run on too much about this car and my experience.  But I really like it and sometimes it more pleasant to read about someone who has had a positive experience, if it is real. My first car was a 1971 Datsun 510 standard with radial tires (the poor man’s BMW), my second a 1978 Rabbit.  My other cars have been Hondas.

Response:

I am looking for comments ( good or bad ) on the Chrysler all wheel drive minivans with the 3.8 L engine. It doesn’t seem that very many of these are produced. In light of the high fuel prices; would one of these minivans be an acceptable alternative to a full sized vehicle to be used for pulling small trailers under 2,000 #. Are the rear drive and brakes dependable? From looking at the published numbers it seems that the 3.8L engine would have adequate power for this application. THANKS in advance for your comments. — Frank Bock

Response:

I am looking for comments ( good or bad ) on the Chrysler all wheel drive minivans with the 3.8 L engine. It doesn’t seem that very many of these are produced. In light of the high fuel prices; would one of these minivans be an acceptable alternative to a full sized vehicle to be used for pulling small trailers under 2,000 #. Are the rear drive and brakes dependable? From looking at the published numbers it seems that the 3.8L engine would have adequate power for this application. THANKS in advance for your comments. — Frank Bock

Response:

Wonderful traction and stability under all conditions. I can also compare it to the FWD model.  When the van was two days old the main engine computer failed.  I was given a Voyager by the dealer with the 3.3 engine, it was a FWD model.  There is really a difference.  For example, making a spirited turn from a stop sign (spirited, not reckless) could generate some wheel slippage and the "awareness" feeling that you are pulling this large rear end in back of you.   With the FWD you are much more aware of the bulk of the van during lane changes and in cross winds.  I’m not saying it handles poorly or it is unstable.  Just that you know that you are driving a large long front wheel drive car.  It has limitations.  The other competing minivans don’t offer AWD as far I know.  But even comparing the FWD, I would go with the Chrysler product. I find the AWD superior in every way.  There is a mileage cost of about 2 mph.  A small price to pay.  The AWD package includes load leveling shocks at the rear and rear discs.The AWD is a pleasure in severe conditions, white knuckles on snow covered roads are a thing of the past.  I can drive with confidence.  I watch my speed because the wonderful handling can cause you to go too fast.  The laws of physics still hold.  On a ski trip to Vermont I had to stop an a narrow two lane road on a hill while a plow turned around.  I needed to start up on a steep unplowed hill with almost a foot of snow and proceed up an unplowed driveway.  I did.  This was a real test of the AWD.  I was shocked  to find it wasn’t a problem. I find this to be a superlative vehicle.  I really enjoy driving it. I would order any DC van with the towing package so that it comes equipped with the heavy duty radiator and extra transmission cooling capacity.  I would also change the transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. . As far as the thee transmission is concerned, I know there aren’t many who have nice things to say about these.  It’s the four speed plus overdrive that is computer controlled.  I have never owned a car with an automatic before and I didn’t want to.  But you can’t get manuals on these vans.  I must say that I have found that this transmission works really well.  It shifts smoothly, and down shifts when it should.  Very smooth.  On the highway on cruise it will seem like almost magic.  Up and down the hills with the computer selecting just the right combinations.  Real nice.  And if you step on it, the transmission will unlock andor kick down, depending on how hard you hit the pedal.  Reliability is still an issue, in my opinion.  I changed the tranny fluid every 30,000 miles and I didn’t tow, and I treated the tranny gently. The torque converter lock-up clutch failed suddenly leaving my wife and family stranded this past Easter weekend.  The van had 75,000 miles on it. The tranny was replaced with a rebuild under the extended warranty. I have found that the brakes work quite well and the antilock seems very effective.  There is a difference on snow.  On snow, when I’m focused (as I try to be) I find that at moderate speeds the stopping distance seems quite long.  This isn’t scientific because I have never driven without the antilock.  It could be the tires, but I expect it is not. (The big 16 inch Michelin touring tires that were original equipment seem to work well in most conditions.  Consumers’ Reports just rated them number 1.  I got 50,000 thousand miles out of them and they were still legal, but I wouldn’t use them in the winter.). It seems that if I brake until the car is on the verge of antilock, it is stopping faster than it is when antilock is invoked.  From what I have read about antilock brakes in this newsgroup and elsewhere my experience seems  to fit.  I find the antilock is very helpful in the rain and on bumpy surfaces.  Also in snow type conditions at higher speeds where control can be more important than traction.  The antilock seems less effective at speeds of 30 mph or so in a line of traffic. This year I purchased the new Michelin Alpin snow tires.  These work real well and I would strongly urge anyone to get such snow tires if snow is a problem where you live.  All season tires are a compromise and snow tires help you stop better. While my ‘97 isn’t underpowered, it could use a little more juice.  They changed the intake manifold on the ‘98 and ‘99 (and perhaps tweaked a few mechanicals, I’m not sure), so the 3.8 engine now gets 180 horses (mine is 166).  I guess they wanted to compete with the GM minis.  It has an old fashioned overhead valve engine.  Up till now all my cars have been overhead cams, but this engine works well and has a good reputation. The 2001 van will eventually be available with an even bigger motor. I haven’t mentioned interior accommodations and comfort.  It’s all there I find that long trips go quickly.  The ride is quiet and comfortable. Watch your speed because you will find that cruising in the high 80’s is no effort and very smooth.  Setting the speed control helps.  It works nicely to slow you on the downhill too.  My passengers appreciate the walk through space so folks can switch seats or search for snacks or odds and ends in the back.  Children and adults love the midcabin   buckets and the view outside the big plate glass windows.  The rear heat and air are powerful.  With a little tweaking, you can make everyone comfortable, and I heard this was improved for 98 with a rear thermostat.  The Mid cabin seats are almost as comfortable as the front seats and are more comfortable than the front seats of most cars.  The arm rests are real nice.  The rear seats are much better than the rear seats of most cars in terms of the space that they provide. And there won’t be anyone who will want for a cupholder or a place to put their stuff.  Seven on a ski trip is no problem.  I have the rear hitch and with it I can carry 4 bikes on a rear hitch carrier and three on the roof (not with the factory roof rack, but with a Yakima attachment called the double cross). I went for the LXI with the leather.  You will need to clean it and protect it with conditioners.  I have found it makes a difference.  It can be scratched (like all leather) but it cleans up nicely. If you opt for the super high end Limited, you even get a center armrest in the rear seats and some other nice stuff like steering wheel radio controls.   I found it is nice for the front seat passenger to have a power seat, (LXI) that seems to be the only thing of significance in terms of items to explain the LXI. I think the 2001 model will have some real nice improvements. I hope I didn’t run on too much about this car and my experience.  But I really like it and sometimes it more pleasant to read about someone who has had a positive experience, if it is real. My first car was a 1971 Datsun 510 standard with radial tires (the poor man’s BMW), my second a 1978 Rabbit.  My other cars have been Hondas.

Response:

Frank… The AWD vehicles come with a super rear independent suspension, although I wonder about overloading the rear and how the camber is effected. Then you also get disc brakes on the rear axle with the AWD. You should definitely find an owner who has been towing with a 3.8/AWD. I don’t think the 3.8 engine is the problem, it’s the rest of the drive train. I tow with a Durango 5.9 V8.  I get 15-18 on the highway under normal driving, and 10-12 towing.  I am sure the 3.8/AWD will also suffer a fuel economy hit, but an owner who tows could help you with this info as well. IMHO, even a 2000lb trailer is a serious towing challenge. The 3.8/AWD is rated to 3500lb or 8500lb vehicle/trailer total, but you should really think through the issue of fuel savings -vs- getting a vehicle that will hold up. I bought a minivan for the wife, but I drive the heavy duty Durango with a happy balance of brawn and room for the family. The minivan has more flexibility on the inside, but the Durango with the third seat also offers plenty of seating and cargo options. I take a hit at the pump, but I have no worries about towing with the Durango. Plus the Durango will take you pretty far off-road if you are so inclined. If you towing needs will stay on the low end of the range, you could get by with the 4.7 V8 which get slightly better fuel economy over the 5.9. Happy shopping and feel free to hit me with any question on the Durango. I love that truck! RJ … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am looking for comments ( good or bad ) on the Chrysler all wheel drive > minivans with the 3.8 L engine. It doesn’t seem that very many of these are > produced. In light of the high fuel prices; would one of these minivans be > an acceptable alternative to a full sized vehicle to be used for pulling > small trailers under 2,000 #. Are the rear drive and brakes dependable? From > looking at the published numbers it seems that the 3.8L engine would have > adequate power for this application. THANKS in advance for your comments. > — > Frank Bock

Response:

> I am looking for comments ( good or bad ) on the Chrysler all wheel drive > minivans with the 3.8 L engine. It doesn’t seem that very many of these are > produced. In light of the high fuel prices; would one of these minivans be > an acceptable alternative to a full sized vehicle to be used for pulling > small trailers under 2,000 #.

Frank, I can’t comment on the reliability of the system (though I hear its no less reliable than the same van with FWD only). HOWEVER, I can say that it is NOT what I would pick for towing. For one thing, the rear differential is coupled to the tranny by an overrunning clutch, not by a center differential. In other words, the rear wheels are just along for the ride UNTIL the front wheels lose traction, so you gain nothing when towing. Also, just looking at diagrams of the system, it doesn’t look like the rear portion is ever meant to carry much power (consistent with the type of AWD it is- only engaging when the fronts slip). In short, it shouln’t be any better ( or worse, really) at towing than a normal FWD minivan. But I  wouldn’t EVER tow regularly with a front-drive of any sort. Hauling a lightweight boat out to the lake occasionally is one thing and probably (just barely) ok, but trailering a camper all around the country is another thing entirely. — Stephen G. Lacker sglacker at texas dot net "Turn off your blinding fog lights, hang up, and DRIVE!"

Response:

: Frank… : : The AWD vehicles come with a super rear independent suspension, although : I wonder about overloading the rear and how the camber is effected. Then : you also get disc brakes on the rear axle with the AWD. No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a beam axle ?!! BTW Is engine transverse ?

 No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

The AWD rear suspension consists of a tubular axle that attaches to a stamped steel housing that houses the wheel bearing and connects to the leaf springs.  The mounting point is offset so that the driveshafts from the rear differential can pass over or through the housing and to the wheels.  The differential is unsprung, it is firmly mounted to the chassis.  The design is such that I believe that the movement of one wheel may twist the axle slightly.   It might be a slight exaggeration, but I could see how someone might characterize the design as almost semi-independent.  I had a 78 rabbit that had a slightly more refined (and FWD) design with semi trailing arm housings that clearly imparted torque to a beam axle. In any event, the axle has an effect.  If I jack the rear of the car up by the middle of the rear axle, the camber of the rear wheels changes. The car also has load leveling shocks and rear disc brakes.  I think it handles quite well.

Response:

Lloyd is correct, the rear axel has the same tube between the sides as the non rear wheel drive.  The rear axels are small shaftes connected to a center differential that is mounted solid on the body. Eugene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the > rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a > beam axle ?!! > BTW Is engine transverse ? >  No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the > fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

: Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the : rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a : beam axle ?!! Whether the rear axle is solid or independent at each wheel has nothing to do with power going to it. : : BTW Is engine transverse ? Yes, as it is in awd Golfs, awd Eclipses and other Mitsu cars of the recent past, awd Volvo S70/V70s, the old Mazda 323 GTX, Ford Tempo, Pontiac 6000, etc. I suggest you read up a little more. : : : : :  No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the : fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

 Wanna tell us how the power is transmitted to the  rear wheels on the AllWheelDrive ( AWD) van using a  beam axle ?!! Whether the rear axle is solid or independent at each wheel has nothing to  do with power going to it.

BTW Is engine transverse ?

 Yes, as it is in awd Golfs, awd Eclipses and other Mitsu cars of the recent past, awd Volvo S70/V70s, the old Mazda 323 GTX, Ford Tempo, Pontiac 6000, etc. I suggest you read up a little more.

I have read up and thats why my sarcastic comment on the way U.S. auto makers botch up a job . That method is the worst way to make traction ! Have you ever seen the better auto makers do this ?!  A solid "beam" axle is the worst way to do this.  If you are going to pay the price of having one wheel interfere with the other , why not just put an old fashioned pumpkin in ! Honda 6 speed Civic AWD did it this way . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> : > : > : > : > :  No they don’t.  The awd minivans have the same beam rear axle as the > : fwd ones, just with multi-leaf springs instead of single leaf.

Response:

Question:

 My ‘95 Neon went in about 20k ago,everything is fine…*sorry* B —

Response:

I’d like to receive input from those who may have had repairs made to their ABS (esp. ‘91 CC minivan owners) before and after the ABS recall (NHTSA mandated).  I was just contacted by an individual who has had repeat problems with the ABS in a ‘91 Voyager.  He says his wife has experienced several near accidents (and they have had one actual accident related to increased stoppping distance).  The Chrysler dealership told him that the "new and improved ABS" was put in the vehicle but the problems continue to resurface.  This man wants to speak out about the matter.  He wants Chrysler to take care of this problem and get the defective vehicles off the road.  Obviously, he has been personally impacted by the situation and just as for many, the issue outrages him.         What problems have recurred?  What "new and improved ABS" has been put in the vehicles?  What has Chrysler done to remedy the repeat problems? Has Chrysler refunded all your repair costs.  This man says he got MOST of the money back (what?  I thought all the money was supposed to be refunded!).  What close call scenarios have owners experienced?  What documentation have you made and where?         Don’t forget to let the NHTSA know (800) 424-9393 when the problem occurs and follow up with a written report.  Also, notify the Center for Auto Safety (202) 328-7700….in writing.  Contact Brian Hufford (212) 661-1100 or (888) 476-6529 (toll-free) who is handling the nationwide class action lawsuit regarding the defective ABS.  Post your situation here so that others may validate their own problems.  This is a widespread problem.  You do not have an isolated lemon in this case.         Please also visit Brian Gluckman’s web site:         "http:www.glue.umd.edu/~kaustin/Chrysler.html" and "http://www.sis.org/docs/chrysler.html" for more information. Charlene Blake

Response:

I’d like to receive input from those who may have had repairs made to their ABS (esp. ‘91 CC minivan owners) before and after the ABS recall (NHTSA mandated).  I was just contacted by an individual who has had repeat problems with the ABS in a ‘91 Voyager.  He says his wife has experienced several near accidents (and they have had one actual accident related to increased stoppping distance).  The Chrysler dealership told him that the "new and improved ABS" was put in the vehicle but the problems continue to resurface.  This man wants to speak out about the matter.  He wants Chrysler to take care of this problem and get the defective vehicles off the road.  Obviously, he has been personally impacted by the situation and just as for many, the issue outrages him.         What problems have recurred?  What "new and improved ABS" has been put in the vehicles?  What has Chrysler done to remedy the repeat problems? Has Chrysler refunded all your repair costs.  This man says he got MOST of the money back (what?  I thought all the money was supposed to be refunded!).  What close call scenarios have owners experienced?  What documentation have you made and where?         Don’t forget to let the NHTSA know (800) 424-9393 when the problem occurs and follow up with a written report.  Also, notify the Center for Auto Safety (202) 328-7700….in writing.  Contact Brian Hufford (212) 661-1100 or (888) 476-6529 (toll-free) who is handling the nationwide class action lawsuit regarding the defective ABS.  Post your situation here so that others may validate their own problems.  This is a widespread problem.  You do not have an isolated lemon in this case.         Please also visit Brian Gluckman’s web site:         "http:www.glue.umd.edu/~kaustin/Chrysler.html" and "http://www.sis.org/docs/chrysler.html" for more information. Charlene Blake

Response:

 My ‘95 Neon went in about 20k ago,everything is fine…*sorry* B —

Response:

Question:

Hi, I am looking to replace the seats in my 325ix with the sport seats from a 325 i(s).  (1987-1991) I am looking for just the fronts but I might buy all in a package deal. They must be from a 4-door. And be black leather.  Condition is not a key issue. I preffer heated but will consider not. Any advice in obtaining them would be appreciated. I live in New York City Thanks David

Response:

> I am looking to replace the seats in my 325ix with the sport seats > from a 325 i or e S.  (1987-1991) > I am looking for just the fronts but I might buy all in a package > deal. > They must be black leather.  Condition is not a > key issue. I preffer heated but will consider not. > Any advice in obtaining them would be appreciated.

please e-mail me as I do not always read the news group. thanks david

Response:

Question:

Anyone know where the sunroof front drain lines for 325s are (where do they drain)? Specifically for a ‘90 325. Please reply directly as well as back to the newsgroup. TIA,       Barry       Albuquerque, NM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Anyone know where the sunroof front drain lines for 325s are (where do >they drain)? Specifically for a ‘90 325. Please reply directly as well as >back to the newsgroup. >TIA, >      Barry >      Albuquerque, NM

How about for an ‘81 528i ?

Response: